0:00

Hey, I'm Maddie, and I'm Skylar, and you're listening to Butter Together, we're two friends who believe food isn't just about what's on the plate. It's about the people, the stories, and the little moments that bring us closer. Each episode, we'll share conversations, memories, and maybe a few recipes too, because the best things in life are meant to be shared. So come hang out with us and let's get into it. Thanks for tuning in today. I'm super excited because we've got something a special. We have Laura Kubo who owns her Micro Bakery, Lloyd Lane, which we have actually talked about in the past and on a different podcast, but she is our first interview here on Butter Together, and I can't wait for everyone to hear about her story, the advice she has for anyone who's trying to get into the culinary field. So We have been talking before this podcast about many of your places you've worked. You've mentioned you wanna mention a few of those places you've worked, and then I wanna ask kind of specific questions about each one. Sure. So let's see. You're my, in my first. Uh, fine dining restaurant that I worked at here in Los Angeles was 1 8 9 by Dominic Ansel at The Grove. I was there for a few months before I started working at Providence who, uh, they just got their third Michelin star. It's amazing. Woo. That is, congratulations. So, Los Angeles finally has three Michelin star restaurants. I've learned a lot from working there. Uh, and then unfortunately the pandemic did hit and so I started. Baking out of my own home. Before I was working at Maori Hiro, I helped him open that sushi restaurant as well as, uh, I made a lot of the pastries and desserts for our dine-in service. And after that I was at the French Laundry for about a year. And then when I moved back down to Los Angeles, I worked at Colossus and Gusto Bread, which are two very nice bakeries here in Long Beach, and now I'm on my own again. Nice. I mean, that's like a very, a lot of varied experience from different types of restaurants I remember you saying you were on the hotline at some and then you did pastry at some other ones, and then you went into bread. Yes. So how would you like, describe each of those experiences and like more in the sense of what you learned at each one? What things brought you to each one after that, how did that process, working first at your first restaurant lead you to now doing your own micro bakery? So in the beginning I was just, I was interested in everything cooking, just anything. And I was very curious about fine dining and so I. I was in the mindset of whatever they need, I'll do it basically. So I enjoyed savory, I was always interested in pastry, but like those opportunities didn't come to me quite yet in the beginning. So when they offered me a position working on the savory side, I said I jumped on it. I was like, yeah, of course. So I started working garmer over at Providence and eventually they moved me to the hotline. So I was working their hot app station, which is on the meat side. I was also learning a little bit of fish butchery from their fish monger Chevy. And then when I was at Maori Hiro I wanted to learn about Japanese food and like traditional Japanese food, which was a really great learning experience. He's also a great chef and I was helping doing all like the prep of the, our vegetable side dishes as well as helping to break down fish as well. And then when we opened for, like I said, when we opened for dine-in service, then that's when my attention switched more towards pastry. Uh,'cause that was just what was needed. But then once we were like in the full swing of service, after we got our first star I realized that I was spending the majority of my day every day doing pastry and kind of doing it on my own, like learning it on my own as well, which is not a bad thing, but I knew that I could learn faster if I went somewhere to learn it. Like I know some things eventually can be intuitive, but sometimes it's nice just to learn things the right way. And so, I decided to apply to the French laundry and uh, that's when I started working there. So then from there it's been kind of full on, like baking, pastry that type of a thing. I still cook savory at home. But when I was up there I also. Decided to make my own sourdough starter and I started learning about bread on my own which was a lot of fun. And I realized that I like working with dough maybe more so than pastry, which is can be very finicky or like very particular. You're like very delicate work, whereas bread is a little bit more visceral. And also you're working with something that's alive, which is fun. So it's like kind of like a pet, right? Managing and taking care of your starter. Yeah. Yeah. So there was that aspect of it that I really liked. It was a little bit more organic and also, but still detail oriented. And so then when I came back to Los Angeles, I decided that I wanted to work at bakeries instead of restaurants. So my focus kind of shifted.'cause it's easier to learn bread when you're doing loads of it, like every day, basically. Yeah. You get to feel what it, what it's like, see how the temperature changes and. Things like that. So, more practice the better. And, uh, yeah. So I had so much fun working, uh, in bakeries. I think I prefer that lifestyle, honestly. It feels a little healthier uh, more natural with your circadian rhythm. I mean, not waking up at three, 4:00 AM but like just the being awake when the sun is up. Yeah. And not being so much of a night owl. Especially as I've gotten a little bit older, like I don't really care about clubbing or going out anymore. Like it's. Just better to feel healthy. So, yeah. Very cool. Do you mind explaining a little bit more to us and to our audience about Providence and French Laundry? What is their style of cuisine? What had inspired you to want to go to these places and then. We have all worked at Colossus, but me and you have worked together at Gusto. So I would just wanna give anyone who's listening a little bit of more information about these fine dining kitchens like Providence, Sure. Yeah. Providence the best restaurant in Los Angeles? I think, yeah, I can, I feel pretty confident saying that, uh, the chefs there are amazingly talented and they care so much about everything that they do. The, their front of house staff is so amazing. Like they make you feel at home. They're super fun, but like very professional. Everything's done right, which is hence the third star. Same with their psalms and bartenders. Uh, they're all incredibly talented and their focus is I guess if you could sum it up, it's like a fine dining seafood or, or sorry, fine dining. French restaurant with a Japanese influence, and their main focus is on sustainably sourced seafood. So meaning that the majority of the fish that they serve is all line caught. They work with a lot of really great, like other fishermen and other purveyors. Uh, all the produce comes from, uh, farmer's markets here in Los Angeles. Their pastry chef also has his own bean to bar program as well, so they make their own chocolate in house. They also have a rooftop garden and as well as their own beehives, so they have a beekeeper. And they give out like, you know, like the special providence honey. They use it like in recipes as well as like they have it packaged like for VIP guests and things like that. So a lot of really, really cool, fun stuff that happens at that place. And, and then a lot of really great chefs and cooks in that restaurant as well. Uh, honestly, if the pandemic hadn't hit, I probably would've stayed a little bit longer. Yeah. But you know what a great opportunity too. That's what, yeah, that's what happens. And then French laundry is, is like one of these timeless, culinary, institutions, especially in California, that is exactly what you think it is. Like all the good things and some of the old school like hard things too. So everything there again, I thought I knew what Clean was, but after being there I'm like, I have a whole new definition of clean. It's insane. Like that restaurant is. Like a very fine tuned machine. Everything runs on a schedule like to a t it's pretty insane. It's really cool to see. But that being said, like it is very demanding because it is like that. So this high standard also comes with very high pressure and, ultimately, I think everyone that goes to work there kind of understands that that's part of the package and. Uh, some time basically like you don't really know what it's gonna be like until you're in the middle of it. As, as with a lot of things, but with life you try to shoot for something and if you, if it ends up working for you, that's great, and if not, then you can leave it. So for me, I knew that I was only gonna be there temporarily anyways. Napa is so gorgeous. So number one, living in that area was amazing to actually like, feel the seasons change to actually be somewhere that is very agriculturally centered. Can you see the livestock and like the grapes growing and like people like the tractors going, people working in the fields and like even things like. Sometimes they would put on these giant fans in the vineyards during the winter to keep the frost off the grapes. Like things like that. I've never seen that before. Like I wouldn't know that unless I've, I drove past it every day, you know? So that was amazing to see. And yeah, just kind of feel, uh, a little bit more connected to where our food comes from. A lot of very talented chefs there as well. It was nice to see like what a restaurant could be if everything was done exactly right. Uh, so. It was very inspiring in that sense. Never worked harder in my life, I don't think. Never moved faster in my life. So it, it was really great to have that opportunity to feel what that's like on a daily basis.'cause it does make you stronger, but it's not for everyone. Like I saw, I was only there for nine months I think. And. During my time there, I think I saw three whole teams of coms come and go. Wow. Because, well, some of them were externs, like from culinary school, but then a lot of them were also just like younger cooks that are like, I wanna be here. And then they're being like, oh, this is, this sucks. Because they work you really hard and like you have to, it has to be done right. Otherwise, like it's a waste of product and time and like someone else has to do it and like it's just very high pressure. So you know, the stereotype of like people getting yelled at and things like that is true. Yeah. But again, that's something that kind of comes with the package. But I mean, I'm grateful for it. Like I feel like I'm not shaken too much by things like that anyways. Uh, but now, so like even less. Yeah. Which is. Useful and helpful for dealing with just life confrontations of uh, you know, someone cutting off in traffic and being like, okay, whatever. You know? Yeah. Things like that. Or oh, you're upset at me. Okay. Okay. That's really cool. You mentioned earlier, like in a, in our combo about ego, like mm-hmm. I think seeing, working at all these places and all of your experiences you've had. How have you like balanced kind of that, like your ego within your own baking? What do you see it as now? Hmm. So there's a couple different kinds of ego that come around these kitchens. One of them is a kind of ego that's like actually backed by a lot of hard work and talent and skill. And so when that kind of person comes around, like you kind of automatically respect them. And even if like they do or say something that can be kind of exaggerated, it's kinda okay, whatever. Like just you feel very heated in the moment. But then these kitchens also attract people that maybe don't have the same kind of skill or talent, but then still demand, walk around with big egos and then that's when it becomes something that is very annoying to work with because basically you're having to like do your work and having to like kind of appease. A person's feelings, which are like, uh, you know, they come and go. So it's like it makes the work environment annoying in a different way, uh, to have to deal with an unpleasant person. But the way I've balanced it, so actually when it comes to the types of personalities that I've seen on a lot of these very fast-paced kitchens versus personalities of just in, this is like a very broad generalization of people that I've worked with in bakeries is bakers seem to be a little bit more laid back. I think maybe because like our projects just take longer. So you can't just make a bread on the fly, like it's impossible. Like it's gonna take, okay, I'll get back to you in three hours, maybe four you know, for even a quick dough. So it's, I think that just the work itself, makes a person kind of separate themselves from, uh, whatever ego in general, or maybe it's just the people I've met in Long Beach. So I don't know, like maybe I just got very lucky with most of the bakers that I met have been a little bit more chill and laid back. But for me personally, like I I sometimes find myself like. Maybe thinking that yeah, I'm at this point now where like I've been in these places where I should do this, but like I know what I'm capable of and I see what other people are capable of. And like I know that, that those are two different levels. And I respect that because it's to me like I want to be surrounded by people that are better than me because that makes you better as well. And I think that, by constantly looking like up or forward or like seeing wow, look at what this person's doing. Like it, it can be like an incredible thing. And when you do that, at the same time, you're also like subconsciously, like putting your, your own ego in check when you're like having more respect for someone else. But I think also something that's helped me a lot is I, I am a. Practicing Yogi. Okay, so I completed my 200 hour teacher training last year.'cause I just realized that I, I real, that's something that I really enjoy and can learn a lot from. And so, like a lot of, what yoga teaches us is like how to be humble basically, or how to keep your ego in check, which is important for this kind of work. I think it's important to have. Some kind of self-confidence because especially in places that are these very high pressure kitchens, like it's not good to always be stepped on. It's because some people will take advantage of that, right? But at, on the other hand, like you also don't want to be the one stepping on people. Yeah. So it's. And you, you see both these personalities in kitchens a lot. So it's important to find your own balance of how to navigate that, uh, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. No, I like that a lot. What would you say like to someone getting into would you have guessed that you would be doing bread now? Like when you started like that process, like your journey, did you just start working in places because it was an opportunity and you just wanted to learn and it ended up in this place? Or would you say like having more of if you know, what you want, going straight for that. Would be the better route. I would have loved, even when I was little, I would've loved to know exactly what I wanted and gone straight for that because that's so not easy, but like that's very straightforward. I feel like you can get a lot more done that way. Yeah. For me it's always been kind of a me a meandering. Like I, I knew that what I liked doing and then, when I got opportunities to do something different that I was interested in, then I would take it. So there wasn't really a plan, but I just knew that I enjoyed learning and I liked working with certain things more than other things. And so like it really was. I guess more of a natural progression. There wasn't a plan. I've, I've never had a five year plan, which is why now starting this micro bakery, I'm like, okay, I need to actually do something. Right. Yeah. But I feel like when you have a straightforward plan, there are many things that you could miss out on. So I feel like that's true. I guess your gathering experiences and stuff could lead to a more, you know, like you have a deeper understanding of what you would like out of your career or out of your day-to-day life and have the, especially with the yogi certification, like the physical and mental fortitude to look at these from a different perspective and feel more comfortable and confident. Right. In these roles that you're now doing. I guess that's true. Yeah. Especially'cause you're on your own for the most part. You, I know you're working with friends and with like you'll have a staff working with you, but I think that that has to come from gathering experiences in very varied fields rather than just going straightforward into one direction. Specifically, I found that the people that I like working with more seem to be more well-rounded people, like people that have interest in other areas or things like that, because having. A wider perspective, I think allows you to also be more compassionate understanding.'cause then you under yeah.'cause then you can understand like where this person's coming from, where that person's coming from. And that will automatically make you a little bit easier to work with.'cause you can understand if like a mistake happens or someone forgot something or when you make a mistake or you forget something, then like it's a little bit more, uh. Of a forgiving com more comfortable work environment, like a more team centered environment as opposed to individual centered, which when it comes to working in a restaurant or being part of something, a larger business like that, like it is important to have some sense of camaraderie to make. That happened smoothly. I mean, there's plenty of places where everything's very toxic and awful and like the thing still happens, but I mean, you can tell when people are like kind of angry or upset or un like unhappy being there. Like I think it's nicer when people are happy. Of course. Do you feel like this kind of career progression has ever influenced your taste and your recipes, especially with your bakery or on your own time when you're at home? Do you carry with you more of a structure and flow, especially at home in the kitchen? Like my kitchen right now at home is almost like a tiny like commercial kitchen. Yeah, like I, the way I prep out things or think about if I'm want to cook something specific will definitely be influenced by the places that I've worked at. Let's see, what does it change my taste too much? I mean, I think being exposed to a lot of really cool ingredients and recipes like is very inspiring when it comes to some things, but. I think a lot of times when I cook, I either, I like make a decision in my head of do I want it to be delicious or am I trying to be healthy? Because I mean, these restaurants that I worked at, except for like Providence and TFL were French-based restaurants. So there's a lot of butter, there's a lot of dairy usually. Everything's very rich, which is delicious. But, you know, I can't be eating like that all the time. And so sometimes when I'll cook at home, it's usually something pretty straightforward or clean. Like sometimes there's a carb, which is kind of crazy because it's like I do so much bread, but like I know if I keep eating all my bread then it's not, it's not really the best thing for me. So I'll enjoy it like occasionally, but for the most part I'll try to eat relatively clean. Or I also enjoy doing like juice cleanses and like fasts and things like that too.'cause it's good for cleansing out your mind or if you're having any gut issues. That's also helps kind of reset that. Which is important. So, but yeah, when I'm at home, it's definitely like a decision, like a conscious decision. Oh, am I gonna have someone come over? Okay, let's make something tasty. You want dessert, you want this, you want that. And, but just by myself at home I don't need to eat today. Look in the fridge, and nah, I'm good. Alright. I mean, you can kind of attribute that to like the long hours in the kitchen, right? That's who, yeah. I'm exhausted. Mm-hmm. It's just time to go to bed, kind of. Yeah. Has that influenced Lloyd Lane? Like I know you said you worked at Maury and then you were talking about earlier in a conversation we talking about what kind of ingredients that you like to use in your bread. Oh yeah. Yeah. So has your upbringing influenced your recipes at all? And I know you did the JCCC for Mother's Day for. Is it a Christmas special that you did the dinner back in December? Oh, so the, the holiday tea was for like around December like before Christmas. And then the J-A-C-C-C, which is the Japanese American Community Cultural Center in Little Tokyo in Los Angeles. They also invited me back to do a special Mother's Day tea, which is essentially like a high tea that's influenced by a lot of Japanese flavors. So. It was structured like a English high tea service. But the teas they offered were like like a ho chi cha and I forget which kind of black tea and like a really nice green tea all from Japan. And then most of the things I served on the menu were also Japanese influenced things like and like I had a scone with roasted kobocha or there's like seasonal fruit. I had a melon pun, which is essentially you know, like a. Kinda like a Japanese Concha. Uh, as well as I, I offered some wahi and like some Japanese inspired like Miny, so like a show you Caramel, Bon Bon. It's been a while. But yeah. So like other Japanese influence flavors, oh yeah. So for, uh, the, something that I like making for under the name of Lloyd Lane Bakery is this roasted NCA sourdough, which is kind of a traditional sourdough loaf. With an added component of toasted rice bran, which I've been very fortunate to source from, uh, Morsan over at Mor Hiro since he mills all his own rice from Japan for the restaurant, he actually partnered with his hometown in Japan. So they grow his rice and then he mills it with a machine at the restaurant. That's so amazing'cause a lot of rice that you purchase commercially. It can be months or maybe like a year until like from the time it's milled to the time, like you're actually putting in your rice cooker, which I mean it's always best like fresh essentially. So that's why he does that for his sushi rice that he serves at the restaurant. But he has all this rice brand leftover, which has a lot of really cool properties. Like you can use it to as like a, a, a facial cleanser. Like a, yeah, like a face mask kind of, or like a scrub kind of, because there's a lot of good nutrients from the rice brand itself that can transfer into your skin. You can also use it as a cleaner, again, as like a polishing kind of thing for surfaces that's not abrasive enough but doesn't scratch or things like that. But you can also bake with it. So it gives like a little bit of a nutty flavor to the bread and I think it also helps. With the moisture content because I've noticed that it stays, uh, or the bread doesn't dry out as quickly as other sourdough. So Interesting. Yeah. And it's also nutritionally, uh, dense, uh, I forget exactly what's in there, but it's got a couple different vitamins and like maybe antioxidants or it's something like that. So with that being said, it is not calorie, uh, friendly. It is pretty calorie dense. So, yeah, but feel like if you're eating bread anyways, you're kind of making that commitment already. Yeah. So. Has traveling influenced your recipes at all for your, your micro bakery? Definitely. So I think to have a successful micro bakery, I mean, I enjoy just making bread, but I realize that people also, I mean they want a little sweet treat, right? Cookies or a lot of places do different, like laminated pastries, things like that. And I know that in America we have this weird standard of for instance, like what a croissant should be like, has to be this like perfect, like tr uh, geometrically uh, Fibonacci Fibonacci sequence. Like the, the, uh, like when you do a cross section, how you gotta see like all these big holes which is great. Like I think it's awesome that people. Understand the craft so well that they can make all those like very technical adjustments to make that happen because that's like mastery of something, right? You can make exactly what you want happen, which is awesome. And then going to Paris and then looking at the croissants and even some of the macaroons, like at Lare, I'm like, oh my God, that thing is so ugly and like broken and smashed. I'm like, but this is like the place where like it got famous or like looking at these other bakeries that are like very fa, like super awesome French bakeries in Paris and like seeing their croissant being like flat or like weird. And I'm like, oh, okay. But then like you eat it and it's like delicious and good. So it's oh, the standard. It's just a standard doesn't actually mean. That the food itself is better. It's just a aesthetic thing, which, I mean, a lot of stuff is, especially like a lot of things you see on Instagram, it's it's to get you in the door oh, did you see this thing? Which again I don't care about that stuff so much myself from like a food perspective, but like from business perspective, like so important, right? So like, all these things serve a purpose and, uh, you know, like it's, it's hard to like. I don't want to like shit on something just because it's not what I am doing for myself at the moment because it all serves a purpose at the end of the day. So like traveling has definitely opened my eyes to see like what's possible. Oh, it doesn't have to be just this way. Like it can be literally anything like, yeah. And just getting to see the different types of bread or like different things that they offer oh, that's how this place does it. Oh, it doesn't always have to be like that. It can look a little bit different's. Like I remember, there's this one place in Paris that served a Queen Oman. And so I, my first Queen Oman was Dominique and sells Queen Oman, which was like the personal one. But then learning from Arturo Gusto that a queen Oman was traditionally like this big thing that you cut up into pieces. I'm like, oh, okay. And then seeing a different kind of Queen Oman when I was, uh, like a colossus and then seeing a Gustos n them all queen em on. So like he puts the N Alsa in there. And then going to Paris and seeing a queen Oman, that was essentially like, it almost looked like a hockey puck, and it was so good. It was like super crunchy and awesome and I love that maybe more than the other ones, but like the other ones were like, you know, little creamier on the inside. So it's oh, like this can look something completely different but still be called the same thing. Oh, you can literally do whatever you want with anything however you want it. Yeah.'cause all these things are kind of like. The name of it is arbitrary. Yeah. And like as long as it's something that you like and that, and hopefully other people like, then, then you can sell it yeah. So you're Micro Bakery, what is it called again? My micro bakery is called Lloyd Lane Bakery. Lloyd Lane Bakery can find us on Instagram. By us I mean me and my bread. It's just me. What would you say, like you're, the, the main purpose, the main core values of Lord Lane Bakery is like with all the experience, all the things you've experienced and worked at, what are you wanting to do with it? So the vision I had for this project when I was making it happen let's see. So when I was living up in Napa, I. Was actually not living in Napa per se. I mean, I say Napa in general because it just gives people that idea. But no, the French laundry's located in Ville, which is a city that's located north of Napa and north of that is another city called St. Helena, which is where my first place I lived at was. But it was then eventually I moved up to Anguin, which is a small town up Howell Mountain Road. Where I started my first starter, so the name of the bakery is the name of the street that I lived on, and it was a literal cottage in the woods. My landlords had this back house that was its own self-contained unit, but it was a literal, like tiny house. It was so cute. And like I said, it was in the middle of the woods. They had chickens on the property and one duck, uh, they had a couple mules. And uh, this. Uh, yellow Lab who was like a farm dog. Like she would drink the rain water and go lay in the sun and swim in their pond that had fish and frogs in it during the springtime. It was a really beautiful experience. I got to see all the leaves change and like I was there during that one year that snowed super heavily and Napa and so getting to wake up one morning and like actually step into a winter wonderland Wow. Was beautiful. I mean, we didn't have power for a couple days, but it was beautiful. Yeah. Like we were actually stuck. There's a picture of my car, like under stuck in about three feet of snow. Wow. It was amazing. So there was a lot of times when I would be hanging out on that property and just like watching the sunset, like me and the dogs watching the sunset. Yeah. And seeing the chickens like hang out and just like feeling very much at peace and very happy actually. It was beautiful being surrounded by nature constantly. And it was, it was so much fun just getting to cook and then like throwing carrot tops and apple cores out the window to the mules that were waiting yeah. So, you know what I mean? I get a snack, you get a snack. But there was a lot of moments when it almost felt like I was retired because my landlords were retired. So of course they have this beautiful, peaceful life and I'm like also enjoying it, but I'm like, hold on a second, Laura, you're not retired. You gotta keep working. But like realizing that that's. A life that I could see myself having in the ver distant future. And yeah, I wanted to basically like, kind of keep that spirit of like peace and creativity and also just being very kind of at one with nature in, uh, a very, yeah, in a happy way basically. So hence the name of the bakery again named after the street that I lived on. And yeah, I could bread is one of those things where you can do it kind of anywhere and uh, just kinda wanted to pay homage to that. And, uh. Kind of keep that vision in my head because one of the reasons I left Los Angeles is because I was just sick of the traffic. Like every day waking up, like looking at all the smog and all the traffic that I was gonna fight my way through, it was just like kind of gross after a while. And I wanted to live somewhere a little bit different. And I was fortunate enough that you know, we live in California, which is so amazing and huge and yeah, you can live in a completely different place and still be in California. It was crazy. Yeah. So I just kinda wanna keep that spirit in my head while I do this project.'cause there's so much you can do with food, uh, that's all beautiful and amazing. But I realize that that's, that feeling was something that was kind of special to me. So I kinda wanna hang onto it. If this ends up turning to something completely different, I'm totally fine with that. But at least that's where it started from. Yeah. Yeah. Does the, the food that you create. Come from a place from that place of like when you're baking it or what, whatever you wanna express through food. Is that same feeling pretty much, or more just like your vision for, for this, like whatever it becomes, I guess that vision doesn't really have so much to do with like specific flavors except for I wanted to. Makes things including food. I wanna make food that makes me happy and I wanna make it in a way that makes me happy too. So I guess that's kind of what that encompasses.'cause you can make delicious food but then like also have like kind of a miserable life. Yeah. Which is totally fine for some people, but that's not what I want for me. So I think that's really good too. Like the way you do things matters to you. Mm-hmm. So the way you cook, the way you bake, the way you're gonna run your business is gonna be in that same kind of core spirit of Lloyd thing. Yeah, I guess so. Will be happy no matter what. Yeah. Because then my life will just be happy. Yeah. Feel like I'm enjoying something. I feel, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like all the great places I've ate, like they, whether they say it or not, their core values translates to their food. I think a lot of the places I admire the most, like the work experience or like the work culture. Like at our bakeries, like here in Long Beach. Mm-hmm. The, the, the way the workers work like translates to when people eat it. And I think, maybe not in a direct sense, but I think it's felt definitely. Mm-hmm. I've gone to certain bakeries and I'm like, I don't know, like their product is the same. I think it's still good bakeries, but like the feeling of being in there doesn't feel the same. Mm-hmm. Or it feels like tense or maybe some cold or something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Big time. Like people like to say oh, the secret ingredient is love. Which is so very cliche, but at the same time it kind of is it's it's the intention, right? And attention and care, right? Attention, yeah. Intention and then attention to to detail or to like what you're doing basically, or like to do things with respect. It. Yeah, you can. That's definitely something you can feel. And ultimately since we're working with our hands and since we're working with physical ingredients, like in some cases that does translate or that does translate to how it tastes as well. If you care or if you don't get, like someone that like just seasons like whatever, they don't taste it like, oh, yeah, you can taste that for sure. Yeah. Whereas like someone that actually cares about how something tastes and of course it's gonna taste better. Yeah. I think there's a really like direct correlation a whole team that really is full of care and likes what they're doing and comes to work with a very positive attitude, has a completely different outcome and consistency compared to, I'd say, like you notice when people are having a rough day. Mm-hmm. And that can translate into, maybe I've been there where a recipe can be like fumbled or you know, you forget something at the mm-hmm. You have to add it in last minute and. It does. There's a, you see it the next day, you know, with the bake off I definitely think that there's a change. Yeah. You know, and this doesn't, this has nothing to do with uh. Like the amount of work someone puts in or like the hard work.'cause you can definitely have all these positive things and still work your ass off and it, it's a great thing. Or you can have none of these good things and work your ass off and have a miserable time. So like those two things are, you can have it both ways. Yeah. What would you say to someone like starting out in their. Their culinary experience? What would be one, like advice or thing, something you wish you would've known before? Talking to someone like just getting into it. Hmm. Things I would've wish I would've known before. That I don't really have an answer for. I, uh. But as far as like advice, maybe I'll think of something later. But as far as like advice, so what I've also noticed is that some of these skills that like make someone a quote unquote good cook are sometimes innate and sometimes not, but. If you're not naturally that kind of a person, like you can definitely learn it. So like I have some very talented, uh, chef friends that like intuitively can do a lot of things. They're like, oh yeah, that's just common sense. I'm like, oh, I never thought to put that there instead of there. And they're like, come on Lord. Like I dunno, I never thought about it. So some stuff like that, like some people have more of like intuition to do that and some of it you learn it. So just. The more you practice doing something, then the more comfortable you'll be doing it. So whether it's cooking at home or like for friends or whatever, like in these other restaurants, to just continue doing it and then you get better at it no matter what. Or to also be very uh. Oh, maybe that's something that I wish I had done is like question more things when someone gave me instructions, like I got better at that later on in my life. But definitely in the beginning it's like someone showed me one thing one way, and I'm like, okay, that's how you do that. And then later on someone shows me a different way or they're like, why are you doing it like that? Do it like this. I'm like, oh. Duh. You know, so yeah, to ask a lot of questions.'cause there might be a better way to do something, even if it's something that you've been doing for a long time or especially if it's something that you do daily to think about is there a faster way I can do this? Not so much just so you could be fast and cool and stuff, but like just efficiency is nice, especially in kitchens because you always have a million things to do. And so if you can make your life easier than you should. Do it. Yeah. And I think too, the more you understand the process of doing something, the better. The better you're at at it and the better you're able to explain it to someone else too. Yeah. Uhhuh, because I think a lot of times, yeah, someone would tell me I had multiple chefs tell me how to do one thing all differently. And I asked each one like, why do you do this? A lot of it is convenience. Mm-hmm. But a lot of times like. I don't think they were explained very well. So it kind of like highlights little gaps in information and the more you ask different people, I think the lower those gaps get and you're like, oh, this is like a simple thing. Mm-hmm. It's just, you gotta ask the question. And then even beyond that, you know, there's people that really get into like the food science part of it and then like then you can really understand why this works and why this doesn't. So, yeah, and I think it aids like anything you do, if you know the science or. Why certain things react in a certain way. You can apply that not just to like pastry, but to savory and all these other mm-hmm. Aspects in food. I think it was really cool. Yeah. Also keeping like an open mind in general is a good, is good because, uh. Yeah, be. If you're flexible in your mind, then number one, it helps you to adapt to weird situations. Especially working like more dinner service like where emergencies happen or other weird things to like, be comfortable in that uncomfortable space is something that takes practice. Some people are definitely better at it than others. I, I panic a little bit still, but I, some people like keep a super level head and then they make something beautiful, so but they only. Can do that because they've been in that situation many times. And so, being flexible in your mind and easily adaptable, can help you see things clearer. Whether it's someone giving you instructions or you giving someone else instructions or just understanding a process or trying to see what, like a goal is essentially. Even if it's you know, an end of the shift kind of goal or it's like the end of a year kind of goal, or if it's a personal goal, like it's, it's good to be able to do that. Yeah, keep an open mind. Yeah. Well thanks. We are really glad we had you today. No, thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. I am. Yeah. I'm very, very happy that we were able to interview you and just like being able to know you and hearing more about your experience, because I know we've talked about this on our own time and when we hang out, but you really do have so much experience and I feel like people can take away so much from this podcast. Like those going into the field, those feeling a little bit unsure of like how to get started or if they should begin, you know? Mm. It really just takes that little bit of courage and. To go for it. Yeah, because, uh, why not? Uh, if you start anything new, you're always gonna be pretty bad at it and so. Mm-hmm. But if it's something that you're genuinely interested in, then might as well try.'cause you only have one life and like. Why not? Like at the end of the day. So that's also the beautiful thing about what we do is that literally at the end of the day, it's just food. Like I have family members that are doctors. I have friends that are like very high power positions. And so like that kind of stress. Or that kind of pressure is a whole other ball game, what we do. Not to say it's imaginary because there's a lot of important things happen, but it is food. So like it, there's a, there's like an innate playfulness to it and an enjoyment that's built into what we do. And like it's always fun to eat. Yeah. Some might say it is a form of preventative medicine. It is. And can go talk about all about Ayurveda and things like that. So I think gaining that fine dining experience and then being able to even apply it to a bakery where stakes are very different and a little bit lower. There's no stakes there, Skylar. It's all bread. There's go home. We're ending it right now. Yeah, I think I learned a lot from you. I know everyone's gonna learn a lot from you and again, I'm just happy you're here. Thanks so much for joining us today. We're so glad you fold up a chair and stayed a while around here. We believe food is more than just a meal. It's connection and care and all the stories that make us who we are, and we hope this episode reminded you of the joy that comes from sharing something simple with someone else. If you liked what you heard. Follow us wherever you get your podcast, and then leave a review to help others find their way to the table. You can also connect with us on social media or drop us a note. We'd love to hear your own food stories. Until next time, we're so glad you're here because everything's better when we're butter together.